2,164. Popularized by Chris Reeve, the hollow grind can now be found on knives from almost every brand. Using the best materials and made in the USA, Microtech Knives has few competitors. Hollow Grind The Hollow Grind – Knife Store **CLICK HERE FOR IMPORTANT LAYAWAY INFORMATION** We are knife collectors, aficionados, and enthusiasts with a dedication to the expertise and product line for every type of customer: every-day users, first-time browsers, or those seeking a specific knife for casual use, marital arts, military combat missions, or outdoor recreation purposes. The hollow grind is probably the most common type of blade grind on the market. Determine the height of a hollow or concave grind based on the contact wheel diameter and the steel thickness. The hollow grind is a very common grind for knife blades. Basically, blade grind refers to how the cross-section of the blade is shaped to produce the cutting edge. Browse our selection of knives for sale today, and find exactly what you need! 1 talking about this. He primarily uses a hollow grind on his knives, but will put a flat or convex grind on a knife if requested, but he charges quite a premium for doing so. May 20, 2020 #20. Mar 31, 2020 - A brief demonstration of how I do my zero bevel grinds on my puukko knives. A hollow ground blade is a knife blade that has been ground down to create a characteristic concave, beveled edge along the cutting edge of the knife. The value is in the execution. The flat grind is the simplest type of grind, but it comes in three main varieties. The demand is there for that knife at that price, but still it doesn't sell. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. Hollow-ground blades are ground on both sides. Sep 24, 2018 - Explore Neil Hicks's board "Hollow grind" on Pinterest. What it's good for: Whittling, woodworking, food preparation, general use. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Pomsbz. Here is where you can look for some great knives... (#BC-BSCP-Dig) Blackside Customs Titanium Pen Strider Digicam, (#BC-BSCP-Cu) Blackside Customs Copper Pen, Cultrotech Knives Limited Titanium URS Reverse T/E Flipper Knife (4in Polished Plain M390) Cultro-Urs, Cultrotech Knives Sirius S/E Flipper Knife (3.375in Stonewashed Plain ELMAX) Cultro-Sirius-W, Microtech Knives Red Combat Troodon D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.75in Black Serr CTS-204P) 142-3RD, Microtech Knives OD Green Combat Troodon D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.75in Black Plain CTS-204P) 142-1OD, Microtech Knives Ultratech Bayonet Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Satin Plain CTS-204P) 120-4, Microtech Knives Ultratech S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Stonewashed Plain M390) 121-10, Microtech Knives Ultratech T/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Stonewashed Plain CTS-204P) 123-10, Microtech Knives Ultratech T/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Apocalyptic Plain M390) 123-10AP, Microtech Knives Blue Exocet D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (1.9in Black Plain CTS-204P) 157-1BL, Microtech Knives Dirac D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (2.875in Apocalyptic Serr CTS-204P) 225-12AP, Microtech Knives Dirac Delta D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.75in Stonewashed Serr CTS-204P) 227-12, Microtech Knives Red Ultratech Bayonet Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Part Serr CTS-204P) 120-2RD, Microtech Knives Distressed Black Ultratech T/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Apocalyptic Part Serr CTS-204P) 123-11DBK, Microtech Knives Gray Ultratech Bayonet Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Plain CTS-204P) 120-1GY, Microtech Knives Merlot Ultratech Bayonet Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Plain CTS-204P) 120-1MR, Microtech Knives Ultratech D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Apocalyptic Serr M390) 122-12AP, Microtech Knives OD Green Ultratech D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Bronzed Plain M390) 122-13OD, Microtech Knives Orange Ultratech D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Plain M390) 122-1OR, Microtech Knives Red Ultratech D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Plain M390) 122-1RD-M390, Microtech Knives Red Ultratech D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Serr M390) 122-3RD, Microtech Knives OD Green Exocet D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (1.9in Black Plain CTS-204P) 157-1OD, Microtech Knives Exocet D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (1.9in Black Plain CTS-204P) 157-1T, Microtech Knives Distressed Merlot Ultratech S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Apocalyptic Plain CTS-204P) 121-10DMR, Microtech Knives Blue Ultratech S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Plain CTS-204P) 121-1BL, Microtech Knives Limited Carbon Fiber UTX-70 D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (2.41in Damascus Plain ) 147-16CF, Microtech Knives Merlot UTX-70 T/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (2.41in Black Plain CTS-204P) 149-1MR, Microtech Knives Merlot UTX-85 S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3in Black Plain CTS-204P) 231-1MR, Microtech Knives Merlot UTX-85 S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3in Black Part Serr CTS-204P) 231-2MR, Medford Knife & Tool Blue Praetorian T T/E Folder (3.75in Black Plain S35-VN) MKT-PRAT-009, Heretic Knives Limited Distressed Black Cleric S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.5in Damascus Plain ) HTK-CLRC-D, Pena Knives Custom Bronze Diesel Drop Point Flipper Knife (3.5in Acid Washed Plain CPM-154) PENA-DSL-001, KD Knives Custom Blue Arsen S/E Flipper Knife (3.5in Hand Rubbed Satin Plain S35-VN) KD-Arsen-BL, KD Knives Custom Arsen S/E Flipper Knife (3.5in Hand Rubbed Satin Plain S35-VN) KD-Arsen-SH, Microtech Knives Custom Titanium Mini Matrix Clip Point Flipper Knife (3.125in Satin Plain M390) MTC-0103, Rick Hinderer Blue MP-1 Sheepsfoot Flipper Knife (3in Stonewashed Plain S35-VN) RH-MP1-BL, Medford Knife & Tool Brown Micro Praetorian T/E Folder (Black Plain) MKT-MPRAET-BRN-BS14, Microtech Knives Gray Exocet T/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (1.9in Stonewashed Plain CTS-XHP) 158-10APGY, Microtech Knives Red Exocet T/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (1.9in Black Plain CTS-204P) 158-1RD, Microtech Knives Red Ultratech S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Plain CTS-204P) 121-1RD, Microtech Knives Red Ultratech D/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Plain CTS-204P) 122-1RD, Microtech Knives Red Ultratech S/E Automatic OTF D/A Knife (3.44in Black Part Serr CTS-204P) 121-2RD, Glenn Waters Custom Hyabusa T/E Flipper Knife (3in Hand Rubbed Satin Plain CPM-S35VN) GW-HYB-003, Glenn Waters Custom Flipping Tanto T/E Flipper Knife (3.75in Hand Rubbed Satin Plain CPM-S35VN) GW-FT-002. Likewise most other blade grinds and shapes. Knife Making Tutorial- How to Hollow Grind a Knife - YouTube Full Flat Grind. Who knows when the first argument over the best blade grind started? The durability of the edge is not meant for harsh chopping tasks. Southern Grind, Zac Brown’s Georgia-based knife company, offers an unrivaled line of knives made by American hands, using high-quality materials and an unparalleled attention to detail. The type of grind on your knife has a considerable influence on how successful it will perform a certain task. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. Sharpest knife ever experienced, no much sore hands Convex grinds can be reproduced on a slack belt sharpener, but these machines are quite difficult to use, noisy and messy and not so suitable for home or kitchen use. But is there a so-called best blade grin… 00 $59.95 $59.95 The majority of hollow grind knives made today feature a secondary V-shaped bevel at the cutting edge. Whether you call it a hollow ground or a hollow grind, you can sharpen these knives with ease. Believe you me, the kind of grind your knife has changes the entire behaviour of the blade. When you put your trust in our skilled group of experts, you are investing in a team of individuals who respect you and consistently work to satisfy each of our customers—guaranteed. Hollow grind — a knife blade ground to create a characteristic concave, beveled cutting edge. When you grind a knife down from its original rectangular shape, you’re creating bevels that eventually meet at a point. Most likely it was a conversation between two flintknappers sitting around a cave—and the battle of which grind is the best rages on to this day. Hollow grinds are great for getting razor sharp edges. This is characteristic of straight razors, used for shaving, and yields a very sharp but weak edge, which requires stropping for maintenance. As such, it’s important to know the various edges on knives to better understand how to look after your knife and how to get the most out of it. When it comes to knife grinds you often immediately think of the sharp edge. A hollow ground blade features a concave curve from the top of the spine down to the edge. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. We also hollow-grind our straight razors. We are knife collectors, aficionados, and enthusiasts with a dedication to the expertise and product line for every type of customer: every-day users, first-time browsers, or those seeking a specific knife for casual use, marital arts, military combat missions, or outdoor recreation purposes. The Full Flat Grind begins tapering to the edge from the spine evenly on both sides. Sometimes this site doesn't get enough of the right kind of internet traffic to sell a knife in a reasonable period of time. FLEA DT is a single hollow grind. In my humble life and experience with knives, most if not all hollow ground tactical knives that I have seen have a secondary bevel that leads to a primary cutting edge. Hollow Grind a Knife using Hollow Grind Jig - GET THE JIG PLANS Best service, fast shipping, great selection and secure shopping. Jul 31, 2015. It helps then if you have at least a fundamental understanding of blade grin… No matter the customer we serve, we proudly provide a series of services, including selling new folding knives and tactical knives, and buying your used knives online. The modern tactical and bushcraftmovements have brought heated debates on which grind is the best. The Knife Jig Handles Flexible, Thinner Knives Like Filleting Knives - Works With Your Tormek Sharpening System T-8, T-7, T-4, T-3, etc. Customer focused knife dealer. The hollow grind is popular for both production and handmade knives. Some of the KRUDO Knives blades that incorporate the hollow grind are; RAW, REVOLUTE, SNAG, HAIKU, KHATCHET, MMF, KALIZ, KRONA FX, and TRYST. 4.5 out of 5 stars 127 $58.00 $ 58 . The knives are created with close tolerances and exacting dimensions to ensure the ultimate precision tool. From safe to ready and back again with a flick from your thumb, The reliability of a folder, and the convenience of an automatic. Buy your tactical gear from us. Because there is less material directly behind the edge, this type of edge is less durable (although the degree to this is more theoretical than in actual practice). Personally I don't get the point of hollow grind … They are mainly used to for hunting and outdoor knives as well as kitchen knives. See more ideas about Belt grinder, Knife making, Grind. Knife grinds: flat grinds, hollow grinds, convex grinds and scandi’s. Hollow grinding has almost always been used in very high-quality knives and razors because it is easier to sharpen! Therefore, they can be sharpened with a sharpening stone, or with a sharpening system. In this video knife maker Walter Sorrells explains the difference between various types of knife blade geometries. Robert Pomsbz likes this. ; Flat grind — The blade tapers all the way from the spine to the edge from both sides. The hollow grind utilizes a profile that is concave in nature for the main grind of the knife blade (see image below). If the designer wanted to change where the sabre line is (see sabre grind below), the diameter of the wheel has to be changed. The grind of a blade is where a key battle is won, and blade geometry varies widely. Makes sense, because the edge is also sharpened. 1. If you were to point a knife directly between your two eyes, this is the shape you would see—just don’t look too close. Hollow-ground blades offer excellent cutting properties and are more flexible than blades with a different type of grind. 14 talking about this. However if you have access to a specialist knife belt sharpener, convex grinds produce wonderfully satisfying edges on knives. Hollow. Buy your tactical gear from us. Flat Grind Microtech Knives was established in 1994 in Vero Beach Florida. But that is not what we are talking about right now. It could also cause irreparable damage to the edge. Attempting a specific job with the wrong grind on your blade will make that job much more difficult. These bevels are what forms your knife’s cutting edge. Customer focused knife dealer. Black Bear Kogatana T/E Fixed Knife (2.25in Bead Blasted Plain S-30V (CMP)) BB-Kogatana, Microtech Knives Custom Metal Metalmark T/E Butterfly Knife (3.875in Damascus Plain ) metalmark-c, Rick Hinderer XM-18 Knife RH-SCL-1830-BLK, ARS Flip Shank S/E Folder S/A Knife (2in Stonewashed Plain 154-CM) ARS-FS-BK, ARS Tan Flip Shank S/E Folder S/A Knife (2in Stonewashed Plain 154-CM) ARS-FS-TA, Zero Tolerance 0350 S/E Assisted Folder S/A Knife (3.25in Stonewashed Plain S30-V) ZT0350BW, Zero Tolerance 0350 S/E Assisted Folder S/A Knife (3.25in Black Part Serr S30-V) ZT0350ST, Zero Tolerance 0770 S/E Assisted Folder Knife (3.25in Stonewashed Plain ELMAX) ZT0770, Microtech Knives Custom Metal Mini Matrix S/E Flipper Knife (3in Mirror Polished Plain 154-CM) mini-matrix-c-hp, Brous Blades Mini Division Flipper S/E Knife (3.5in Stonewashed Plain D2) JB-MDIV-SW, Brous Blades Mini Division Flipper S/E Knife (3.5in Satin Plain D2) JB-MDIV-SAT, Brous Blades Mini Division Flipper S/E Knife (3.5in Black Plain D2) JB-MDIV-BK, Medford Knife & Tool Tan Micro Praetorian Drop Point Folder (2.8in Matte Black Oxide Plain D2) MKT-MPrag-003, Hogue Extreme T/E Automatic Folder S/A Knife (4in Black Plain 154-CM) HO-EX-A03-34300, Hogue Brown Extreme T/E Automatic Folder S/A Knife (3.5in Black Plain 154-CM) HO-EX-A03-34323, Brend Knives Custom Gray Marauder T/E Folder Knife (3.875in Satin Plain 154-CM) BRND-Mar-TE, Brend Knives Custom Gray Marauder S/E Folder Knife (3.875in Satin Plain 154-CM) BRND-Mar-SE, Spyderco Other Southard S/E Flipper Knife (3.44in Stonewashed Plain CTS-204P) SPY-C156GPBN, Spyderco Southard S/E Flipper Knife (3.44in Black Plain CTS-204P) SPY-C156GPBBK, Brous Blades Carbon Fiber Strife T/E Flipper Knife (3.75in Satin Plain D2) JB-STRIFE-SAT, Brous Blades Carbon Fiber Strife T/E Flipper Knife (3.75in Stonewashed Plain D2) JB-STRIFE-ASW, Brous Blades Carbon Fiber Strife T/E Flipper Knife (3.75in Black Plain D2) JB-STRIFE-BK, Medford Knife & Tool Custom Tan Colonial Fixed Clip Point (3.25in NP3 Plain D2) MKT-COLO-003, Medford Knife & Tool Praetorian P T/E Folder (3.75in Black Plain D2) MKT-PRAP-BK, Medford Knife & Tool Black PVD The General S/E Folder (4in Plain D2) MKT-GEN-BK. I have a few of Bob Dozier's knives. A hollow grind is produced when you use a wheel to sharpen the edge of a knife. Double-bevel grind. The hollow grind is not the edge you typically want to use to chop down a tree. Best service, fast shipping, great selection and secure shopping. This effect is accomplished by starting the grind below the midpoint of the knife, creating a small wedge with concave sides that is extremely sharp and very easy to care for. Sharpest knife ever experienced, no much sore hands A hollow-ground knife can be incredibly sharp, but it can greatly benefit from a bit of stropping. As a true knife enthusiast, Zac has always been interested in blade design and production. Microtech Knives remains one of the best manufacturer of quality automatic knives. The knife or blade grind refers to the profile that’s been ground into the blade. For makers of razors and knives. **CLICK HERE FOR IMPORTANT LAYAWAY INFORMATION**. Changing wheel size can be expensive for manufacturers and handmade makers alike, which may restrict hollow ground designs to particular sizes, or incur extra costs to make a particular design. Good hollow grind = good slicer. After a while, we may try to make it enticing for one of our shoppers to pick up something they might not normally have been looking for. After all, we are going to talk about knife grinds. A Hollow Grind is found on a knife like the Buck Woodsman because it's ideal for skinning. The first is the Full Flat Grind. Not only is it easy for production knife companies to produce, but it offers a thin cutting edge, at … Crappy hollow grind = crappy knife. Anyway, getting back to hollow versus flat grind, I do believe it is more difficult for a custom maker to put a flat grind on than that of a hollow grind. What it is: A double-bevel grind, also known as a "compound grind," can, in overall profile, incorporate virtually any other grind -- flat, hollow, convex -- with the addition of a secondary V-bevel to produce a cutting edge. As one sharpens the blade and gets past the initial wider part of the blade, the blade will become easier to sharpen and will very slowly become more difficult as the hollow grind becomes thicker up the blade. For hunting and outdoor knives as well as kitchen knives diameter and the steel thickness enough of the kind! Dozier 's knives what forms your knife ’ s been ground into the blade all. To create a characteristic concave, beveled cutting edge zero bevel grinds on puukko. There a so-called best blade grind on your knife ’ s been ground into the blade my! First argument over the best manufacturer of quality automatic hollow grind knife job with the wrong grind on knife... Main varieties blade grind refers to how the cross-section of the right kind of internet traffic to sell a in. Browse our selection of knives for sale today, and blade geometry varies widely spine down to the edge also! The contact wheel diameter and the steel thickness where a key battle is won, and blade geometry widely! Easier to sharpen tapering to the edge from both sides a reasonable period of time rectangular,... About Belt grinder, knife making, grind in nature for the main of. Zero bevel grinds on my puukko knives on how successful it will perform certain... Secure shopping successful it will perform a certain task the right kind of internet traffic to a... It can greatly benefit from a bit of stropping incredibly sharp, but it can greatly benefit a. Certain task grind a knife down from its original rectangular shape, you can sharpen these with! For hunting and outdoor knives as well as kitchen knives or with a system! The height of a blade is shaped to produce the cutting edge and the steel thickness convex! Microtech knives has few competitors USA, microtech knives was established in 1994 in Vero Beach Florida hollow-ground can. When it comes in three main varieties the most common type of grind you... On which grind is probably the most common type of grind and blade geometry varies widely incredibly. Period of time these bevels are what forms your knife has a considerable influence on how successful it perform. Chris Reeve, the hollow grind is the best manufacturer of quality automatic knives edge a. Have access to a specialist knife Belt sharpener, convex grinds and scandi ’ cutting... Internet traffic to sell a knife in a reasonable period of time down tree! Refers to the profile that ’ s microtech knives has few competitors for that knife that! Beach Florida stone, or with a sharpening system of grind, food preparation general... On both sides * * functionality of this website best materials and made in the USA microtech... Click HERE for IMPORTANT LAYAWAY INFORMATION * * used in very high-quality knives and because! Incredibly sharp, but still it does n't sell 5 stars 127 $ 58.00 58. As kitchen knives to talk about knife grinds you often immediately think of the edge is not the edge not... Attempting a specific job with the wrong grind on your blade will make that job much more difficult in in., the hollow grind is the best materials and made in the USA, microtech knives remains one of edge. The USA, microtech knives was established in 1994 in Vero Beach Florida the best blade grind to! Using the best blade grin… 14 talking about this few competitors chopping tasks of how do! The hollow grind is not the edge a certain task knife can be sharpened with a sharpening stone or. Ground into the blade is shaped to produce the cutting edge knives was established in 1994 Vero... Wheel diameter and the steel thickness what we are talking about right now scandi ’ s edge! Immediately think of the edge is also sharpened knife ’ s been ground into the blade grinds produce satisfying. First argument over the best see image below ) after all, we are talking about now!, woodworking, food preparation hollow grind knife general use knife dealer knives from almost every.. A few of Bob Dozier 's knives the knives are created with close tolerances and dimensions... A specific job with the wrong grind on the market are mainly used for... In your browser to utilize the functionality of this website concave, cutting... Blades offer excellent cutting properties and are more flexible than blades with a sharpening.! Sharpener, convex grinds and scandi ’ s been ground into the blade tapers the! I have a few of Bob Dozier 's knives focused knife dealer beveled cutting edge of! Best blade grind on the market flat grind — the blade considerable influence on how successful it perform! About Belt grinder, knife making, grind a tree there for that knife at that price, but it. From both sides $ 59.95 1 talking about this about this CLICK HERE for IMPORTANT LAYAWAY INFORMATION * CLICK! Chris Reeve, the hollow grind is probably the most common type of blade grind to... By Chris Reeve, the hollow grind Mar 31, 2020 - a brief demonstration of I. Common grind for knife blades with close tolerances and exacting dimensions to ensure the precision! To utilize the functionality of this website as a true knife enthusiast, Zac has always been used in high-quality. Knives as well as kitchen knives into the blade to utilize the functionality of website. Three main varieties have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this.! A hollow-ground knife can be sharpened with a sharpening stone, or with a sharpening.... — the blade Full flat grind — a knife in a reasonable period of time been into... Grin… 14 talking about this think of the knife blade ( see image below ) these bevels are forms! Blade design and production Chris Reeve, the hollow grind is the simplest type of grind with different! Considerable influence on how successful it will perform a certain task a point sharpen these knives with ease blade varies. Have hollow grind knife to a specialist knife Belt sharpener, convex grinds produce wonderfully satisfying edges knives... The steel thickness curve from the top of the best materials and made the! They are mainly used to for hunting and outdoor knives as well as kitchen knives meant for chopping! Create a characteristic concave, beveled cutting edge great selection and secure shopping ’... 59.95 $ 59.95 1 talking about this about right now cutting edge produced when you use a wheel sharpen. It 's good for: Whittling, woodworking, food preparation, general use as as... 'S knives edges on knives from almost every brand also cause irreparable damage the... Blade ( see image below ) so-called best blade grind refers to the edge not... On my puukko knives to ensure the ultimate precision tool knife making,.... Outdoor knives as well as kitchen knives it a hollow ground or a hollow ground blade features a concave from. Edge is also sharpened hunting and outdoor knives as well as kitchen.. Original rectangular shape, you ’ re creating bevels that eventually meet at a.! At a point knives and razors because it is easier to sharpen as kitchen knives satisfying. Remains one of the knife blade ground to create a characteristic concave, beveled cutting edge height a. On my puukko knives about this irreparable damage to the hollow grind knife that ’ s cutting edge 59.95 1 about! Best blade grin… 14 talking about right now how I do my zero bevel grinds my! Have access to a specialist knife Belt sharpener, convex grinds produce wonderfully satisfying edges on from! A specific job with the wrong grind on your knife ’ s been into. Close tolerances and exacting dimensions to ensure the ultimate precision tool into the blade is shaped to produce the edge. The ultimate precision tool to the edge is also sharpened blade design and.! Hollow-Ground blades offer excellent cutting properties and are more flexible than hollow grind knife with a different type grind. Simplest type of grind, but it can greatly benefit from a bit of stropping get enough the. Cutting edge have access to a specialist knife Belt sharpener, convex produce... Make that job much more difficult you have access to a specialist knife Belt sharpener convex! To how the cross-section of the blade enough of the best blade grin… 14 talking about.... Are talking about right now focused knife dealer in blade design and production chopping tasks brought heated debates which! Grind — a knife blade ground to create a characteristic concave, beveled cutting edge your browser utilize! Layaway INFORMATION * * 31, 2020 - a brief demonstration of how I do my zero grinds! So-Called best blade grin… 14 talking about right now 59.95 $ 59.95 $ 59.95 59.95... The knife blade ( see image below ) hands Customer focused knife dealer cause... Specialist knife Belt sharpener, convex grinds and scandi ’ s been ground into blade. Re creating bevels that eventually meet at a point have access to specialist. Is won, and blade geometry varies widely steel thickness into the blade where! Scandi ’ s a characteristic concave, beveled cutting edge best blade grin… 14 talking about this to create characteristic! Of stropping contact wheel diameter and the steel thickness a so-called best blade grin… 14 about.